Showing Up As Yourself, with Judy Galek

Sept 23, 2021

The Mass Business Podcast

Season 1, Episode 19 – Showing Up As Yourself, with Judy Galek

In episode 19 I have a chat with certified life coach, Judy Galek. Judy specializes in family recovery support and coaching and helps families work together as a team to reduce relapse and overdose rates through family-focused recovery methods. We talk a lot about authenticity and being yourself in this episode. Judy explains how to get to the point where you can be comfortable with yourself and not care what anyone else thinks about you. As usual, some of this conversation revolves around networking and why it is so important to the growth of any business. Are you ready? Let’s go!!

Resources Mentioned in this episode –

Thryv – Small Business Software     The Go-Giver – Bob Burg

Connect with Judy –

[email protected]     Facebook    LinkedIn

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on our show please visit us on Facebook or at our Website –

MassBusinessPodcast.com   Visit Us On Facebook   Subscribe On YouTube

MORE Word Of Mouth Referrals: Lifelong Customers & Raving Fans

MattWardSpeaks.com

[expander_maker id=”1″ more=”Episode Transcript” less=”Read less”]

Judy Galek 7_22 11am
Wed, 8/11 9:29AM • 35:36

Matt Ward 00:00
Hey, I’m Matt Ward, I’m your host for the Mass Business Podcast. Welcome back. I’m so excited to have you for Episode 19. And boy, do I have a treat for you today, my good friend Judy Galek on the podcast today. And I hope that you’re gonna really enjoy this conversation around her business, not so much what she does, but how she’s grown it. And she’s adapted and changed over time. We’re gonna dig into that right here in this Mass Business Podcast. Are you ready? Let’s go.

Intro
Welcome to the Mass Business Podcast where small business owners, also known as risk takers, share their stories about the growth of their business and themselves. Our interviews and our content is focused on growing a small business and understanding networking and referrals. I say it all the time. And I’ll say it again today. You never know for your next referral will come from.

Matt Ward
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Mass Business Podcast episode 19. I want to introduce you to my friend Judy Galek. She’s a certified life coach who specializes in family recovery support and coaching, helping families work together as a team to reduce relapse rate and overdose rate through family focused recovery methods. She provides one on one coaching to individual family members, as it only takes one to start a domino effect. Please join me in welcoming Judy Galek to the show. Hello, Judy. Welcome.

Judy Galek 01:51
Thank you so much for having me on.

Matt Ward 01:53
This is Oh, it’s gonna be a blast. I love your energy. I love hanging out with you. You know, I wrote a book, How To Do Business With People Who Bring You Joy. Judy, you always bring me joy. And the reason is, you make me smile, right? We’ve never, you know, actually, we have done business. You’re a client of mine. But I haven’t actually done business with you. Right? I’m not in a position currently with a family recovery or whatever. I have connected you to people who I think could be good referral sources. But I think the lesson here is, you don’t always have to do business with people, to surround yourself with people who bring you joy. And folks, let me just tell you something, Judy is a massive networker. She loves it. And I want to encourage you to find a way to get on a call with Judy, because she literally, it’s like her mission to make you smile. I love it. It’s so much fun. Yeah.

Judy Galek 02:55
I enjoy your company. Also. You’re awesome to be around.

Matt Ward 02:57
Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, I Thanks, I’ll, I appreciate that, hopefully get the Venmo payment for saying that. So here’s the thing. There’s something about you that I want to dig into real quick, which is, and we haven’t talked about this, I’m totally, totally blindsiding you with this. But in a couple episodes previously, somebody talked about authenticity. And, Judy, I have to say that you’re probably one of the most authentic people I’ve ever met in my life. And what I mean by that is, you, you are who you are, every single time I see or interact with you. You, you have no qualms about who you are your energy, you bring it every time. It’s not A front, it’s who you are, it’s not a show. And if people don’t like the energy that you bring, for some reason or another, or you say something that they don’t like, or you happen to drop a curse word here or there, and they don’t like it, then so be it and you’re totally cool with that. I love that. Where does that come from?

Judy Galek 04:07
Oh, where does that come from? I don’t, I don’t know. Actually, I’ve never been asked that question. And just by you acknowledging that I do feel seen. I feel like you’re actually seeing me for who I am. Because that’s just how I am. I am myself. And I guess it’s a thing that I had to learn. It’s a process that I had to learn not to give enough about what others think of me. Because what I think of myself is what matters the most, and people will dislike you for one reason or another and you cannot let that be your point of attachment to self esteem or confidence or whatever else, you know, that I had to learn through the hard way and I guess the process for me.

Matt Ward 04:54
Oh, so you mean you’re telling me that you’re not an overnight success. You’re a 20 year overnight success. I love that I say that all the time, right? People often look at who we are, and the business we built. And think that we did that in the last 24 hours, the last even 24 weeks. But the reality is we didn’t last 20 years.

Judy Galek 05:16
Mmm Hmm, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now, I was gonna say it’s always baffling when people said to me, Oh, yes, of course, you can do this, because you’re you, you’re outgoing. And people like you and you’re pretty. And can you believe there was a time when I did not think of myself as pretty or even attractive? That was a major struggle for me. And I had to, like, learn that, you know, just be okay with who I am. And it’s definitely a process, it doesn’t just happen. So it doesn’t happen overnight.

Matt Ward 05:54
That brings up a memory for me that I never used to think I was successful, ever. And success is defined so differently by many, many different people. But for me, I just never saw myself as successful. Until one given week, I don’t even recall when it was, one given week, three business people said that word to me in that same week. And that was sort of an awakening for me that others saw me as successful, and that I didn’t even care what the definition of success was, at the time, what I recognized was that others saw the work that I was doing, as you just said, a few minutes ago, it’s about, you know, being seen and showing up in the world and the way in which you want to deliver. And, and it’s so unique. And the reason I asked you about your authenticity is because, you know, I think that that’s a big component of small business, it’s, it’s who we are as an identity. And if we are not authentic, if we don’t show up in every angle that we, every way in which we show up, if we don’t show up authentic, the same every time, then people start to see that. And that lowers the ability to get referrals, that lowers the ability to grow a business. I see that in networking all the time, right? I see. In the speaking business. Judy, I saw this thing called speaker voice, which is like, Okay, I’m talking to you now. And then I get up on stage. And I’m like, Hey, Mr. Speaker, man, like radio voice, podcast voice, right. But that’s not what people want that. They just want regular, the regular Joe or Jane, you know, so yeah. Talk to me a little bit about your business in 30 seconds or so just describe to the audience, listening and viewing audience what your business is all about?

Judy Galek 07:49
Well, my business is about my heart’s work. This is my heart’s work, my passion. I love helping family members understand the recovery process, their roles in the recovery process, and how to effectively support someone who’s going through that truly addiction, drug, and alcohol addiction recovery.

Matt Ward 08:09
Okay, and so, So to be clear, you don’t work with the person who’s going through the recovery process, you work with the actual families, which is a completely different model than I think most people are accustomed to hearing about.

Judy Galek 08:20
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people have it backwards, actually. Because I mean, I know, I know, for sure certain there are people who, you know, spend X amount of time three or six months, even a year or two years away from the family, in treatment and going through that process. And right when they go back home, they experience a relapse, because home is not conducive to recovery. And a lot of the reason most of the reason, the main reason why anybody goes through that process, and they chronically relapse, it’s because of that lack of support, when the family is not on board, when the family is adding too much pressure, when the family is asking the wrong questions, doing all the wrong things. That you know, feeds into the cycle of addiction, and it makes that process a lot longer than it needs to.

Matt Ward 09:13
Interesting. So how do you go to market with your business? How, as a business owner, how are you finding clients?

Judy Galek 09:21
Networking, networking, talking to wonderful people like yourself

Matt Ward 09:27
What is it about networking that works for you?

Judy Galek 09:31
Connection, I love connecting with people. That’s also the thing I struggle with, because I find that many people are very shallow, and they’re kind of like just wanting to sell or they want to, you know, tell you about their products so you know about them so you can get them a sale and not really connecting to learn about each other and get to know and like and trust each other. Right? Yeah. Which is what it’s all about.

Matt Ward 09:58
Yeah, and that’s tough. Right, because not to pick on any particular industry, financial advisors. Here’s the thing, like, I always like to say that you can walk to the end of my driveway to pick up the mail and trip over a realtor or mortgage professional, or financial advisor. And, as I like to say, on the big Connect every month, look, if you get paired up with a financial advisor, just remember, our financial advisors are people too. Right? The problem is, is that so many financial advisors have given such a bad rap to the good ones. Right? So the good ones are fewer and far between, right the ones that build relationships and connect and, and are genuine and are interested in the relationship long term and not so much your business. And then they want to get connected to other people, good referral partners. But oftentimes, I’ll do a one to one with somebody and they’re a financial advisor. And in sort of wrapping up the call, I’m like, Well, you know, so who can I connect you with and they’re like, Well somebody like yourself? I mean, don’t you have life insurance, you’d like to move over? Like, no, that’s not how this works. This is not how this works. That’s just gross, you know? Yeah. So we gotta, the thing is, we got to do the numbers, right. So that’s the painful part of the process of networking. But when we find those core people, this is always thing I love to say is that we don’t need 1000s of clients. Right? We need handfuls a dozen, something like that. And so that’s, that’s what I love the people the connection that you talk about the connection. I mean, it’s amazing, the type of people I’ve met over the years that have become friends. You know, and it’s a powerful, powerful thing, to surround yourself with these people that uplift you all the time. You know, what’s your biggest struggle as a solopreneur and entrepreneur, yourself? What’s the biggest struggle for you growing your business?

Judy Galek 11:56
The biggest struggle, I would say. I love networking, but it’s also a challenge. So connecting with people, as I say, and I find that a lot of people misunderstand exactly what I do. They think, you know, they automatically think I work with the people who are going through the drug and alcohol addiction and not the family. But I work with the family. So yeah.

Matt Ward 12:29
Why do you think that’s a struggle? Just because they haven’t heard of somebody working with the family before?

Judy Galek 12:34
Well, yes. And the whole industry and how they market things, you know, it’s mainly focused on getting them to treatment, you know, the drug addicts, getting them to treatment, getting them to stop those behaviors. And a lot of people reach out to me, and they say, Oh, yes, my child is struggling with addiction. Please help her like, you need to work with her. I’m like, No, no, no, I would be working with you, because you’re the support system, and maybe part of you know, I mean, everyone is connected. Triggers are people, places, and things. So if you are being helpful, and you are supportive, and you’re helping your loved ones manage those things, then the whole process is much easier. And it can even be a wonderful thing. It’s a learning experience for both parties.

Matt Ward 13:29
I love that you said that. Right? So learning experiences for both parties. And that’s, that’s I also think what business is all about It’s about constantly learning new things. Right? So whether it’s learning how to network better, learning where to go to find networking events, learning who to take networking appointments with. What are you learning now that is for your business or, or something around that?

Judy Galek 14:01
I am learning how to refine my consultation process. I have a tendency to I mean, again, this is my heart’s work right. So when people are in the middle of telling me their stories, and it’s just something within me, I don’t feel comfortable with just stopping someone and say, Okay, well stop right there. I have this next question to ask you so we can get through my process in a timeframe. That I’m working on and it’s a challenge, but I’m working on it and wanting to do better with that.

Matt Ward 14:36
How do you learn, how do you stay up to date, whether it be industry-related or even non-industry sort of business related? How do you stay up to date with new things?

Judy Galek 14:47
I read. I read. I read a lot of books. I love YouTube. I love talking to people. I also attend the family support group meetings.

Matt Ward 15:00
So you’re involved in the vertical space of recovery work, and you’re learning things there. And then you’re reading periodicals, books, magazines, articles, blogs in the business space and learning things there.

Judy Galek 15:17
Yeah. And visit the facility centers, the rehabs.

Matt Ward 15:24
What do you find the time to do all this, Judy?

Judy Galek 15:28
Well, I don’t do it all at once.

Matt Ward 15:33
So, what’s your process? You were talking about reading books? Do you read books every day?

Judy Galek 15:38
Oh, yes, I read at least one in minutes a day. Sometimes I end up reading for a whole hour. But you know, it’s a good thing. I love reading, um, rehabilitation visits, I do that maybe once or twice a week, sometimes less depending on what else I have going on. And meetings, I do two family support group meetings a week.

Matt Ward 16:03
So when it comes to business as a whole, I mean, you’re doing a lot there. Plus, not to mention you have your own clients you’re working with, and your own commitments to networking that you’re doing, and constantly trying to grow. And you’re running a family. Right? What would you say is your biggest challenge when it comes to learning new things and continuing to grow?

Judy Galek 16:31
I don’t, I don’t see it as a challenge. I mean, if I had an extra 10 hours of my day, that would be awesome.

Matt Ward 16:42
I heard somebody in business and the other day, her specialty was saving business, giving back five hours a week to business owners.

Judy Galek 16:52
Wow. I’d love to hear how that’s done. Without taking away from the other stuff I’m already doing right.

Matt Ward 17:00
Well, so that’s the thing, right? I think one of the key components of that is outsourcing certain tasks, the more you can systemize certain things in your business. And obviously, you can’t outsource certain things, right. And there are many business owners, they can’t outsource certain work that they do. But there’s a lot of busy work that we business owners tend to do. We get involved in some of the social media stuff, we get involved in developing white papers and downloads and SEO and WordPress website updates and all kinds of stuff. And small things can add time back to your calendar.

Judy Galek 17:41
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I do have my website and SEO and all that stuff, outsourced. I think what I could outsource out, free up my time is maybe having a housekeeper come in once a week. And a cook.

Matt Ward 17:55
That is so interesting you bring that up, Judy, because I think many people listening or viewing this podcast on YouTube, they are not thinking about outsourcing things in their personal life to help them both free up personal time and as such, business time. And it’s like, one of my clients recently had someone come in and do the laundry. And she was loving every minute of it because she gained all that time back. And yeah, you know, there’s a, there’s a trade off, right? It’s the time for the money. But there’s a book out there called Who Not How. And it’s written with the concept of who can do this work, not how can I get this done. And it’s basically built around the idea of outsourcing and the author outsourced the book. Right. And so, so Nho Not How is like, okay, who can be the chef, who can be the cleaner, who can be the housekeeper, who can be the laundry thing, who can mow… I, By the way, I should just, you know, be as authentic as possible. I don’t mow any grass in my entire life, like nothing. But the properties I have. Yeah, yard people. Thank you very much. I have zero interest in pushing or riding a mower. The only time I’d love to ride a mower is when I can put a bluetooth headset on listen to music at the same time. But I won’t actually do it, Judy. There was a time early on in my business ownership with my web design company that I had a house, I had a really nice ride-on mower. And I was so busy with the business the mower never came out of the garage and my neighbors mowed my lawn because it got so long. Now it’s just super simple. I get into a contract with a landscaping company and I say can you just take care of it make it look pretty? Yeah. It’s done. And yeah, there’s a cost trade off. Right. I see the charge every month on my credit card. But would I rather do that than go push a mower or ride on it, you know?

Judy Galek 20:03
Yeah. Yeah, I hear you and you spend more time doing what you love. And that’s creating and producing more income, right?

Matt Ward 20:12
That’s the idea, doesn’t always work to produce more income.

Judy Galek 20:18
Well, if you’re having someone, you know, mow your lawn and you’re sitting in front of the TV, you know, that’s not really productive.

Matt Ward 20:25
Well that’s the other issue, right? I mean, for sure. Business owners out there. That’s a challenge right now that you don’t want to do that. What when you think about running a business, like when you think, how long you’ve been in business, Judy?

Judy Galek 20:41
A little bit over two years now.

Matt Ward 20:43
Okay. So two years. So we’ve had a couple people on the podcast that were brand new within one year, 18 months to three years. When you think back to when you started, and compare that to now. What do you wish you knew then, that you know now?

Judy Galek 21:04
Hmm, the power of networking? I was an introvert. I mean, I still consider myself an introvert. And you would think I’m very outgoing, and like life of the party, right. But like, put me in a room full of people. I’ll be standing in a corner. And that’s me. And I had to work myself out of that.

Matt Ward 21:32
How did you do that?

Judy Galek 21:34
Zoom made it easier, being behind the camera. And now since COVID, those gatherings are much smaller, and they consist of people I’ve already met on zoom. Yeah, so that is a lot of the stress for me, because I mean, if I’ve already had a conversation with you, and I know you feel and understand who I am. The question is always, are they going to like me? Am I going to be too much? You know, for people who don’t know who I am? Because I mean, that’s been the feedback I get.

Matt Ward 22:09
It’s so interesting that you mentioned that, you know, when I became a professional speaker, I found out rather quickly that my number one issue was the need for approval. I was standing on stage, wanting everyone in the audience to approve of me and what I said. And eventually, I was able to shed that. And I’ll never forget, I watched an audience member get up and leave the room. I was speaking in Las Vegas. And literally, while I was speaking, my subconscious, my head consciously was telling me, it was saying to me, why is she leaving the room? This is good content. I literally said that to myself. Why are you leaving the room, it’s good content. And then I’m talking to my coach about it. She was amazing. The first thing she said was, well, maybe she had to go the bathroom. Oh, good point. Then she said, Well, maybe she got an emergency text from her kids. Like, Oh, good point. And then she said, and maybe your content sucked, like, Oh, good point. And then she said, here’s the thing Matt, you got to know who you’re for and who’s for you. And that’s when it’s set in when Tamsen Webster told me that, I realized immediately, we don’t need all the clients in the world. As I said earlier, we don’t need 1000 clients, we need 10, we need 20. Right? We need to know our numbers to know what we need to get and by someone self selecting out of your service actually is of service to you. Because now you’re not chasing the wrong prospects. And so, I would say, never think about whether or not they’re gonna like you. Because the people that like you, Judy, don’t just like you, they love you. I know a lot of people who know you, and they love you. They love the energy and the authenticity. You know

Judy Galek 24:09
Thank you, Matt. You know, one thing I’ve learned since then, like, again, it’s been a process for me, right? Is that everybody is actually thinking of themselves. They’re not thinking about you, they’re thinking themselves. And we all do that, right? So it’s like, okay, so it’s just no point to even waste that time and energy thinking about what they thinking of you, when they are thinking about what you’re thinking of them.

Matt Ward 24:40
I don’t even know how that’s gonna be written in the transcript on the show notes, but we’re gonna figure out how to write that. That’s gonna end up in a quote with Judy’s name on it. I can’t, we’re gonna have to pull it right out of the audio file. It’s gonna be fantastic. That’s a great quote. So what What’s next for your business journey? What’s next for you?

Judy Galek 25:04
Group coaching, It’s been an idea for quite some time, but I’ve really been putting a lot of thought and energy into it. I do have a free Facebook group. But essentially, I would love to have a peer group where people are committed to doing the work, and a community of others who are going through the same, you know, similar situation and experience so they can really get that support, not just from me, but from the whole community.

Matt Ward 25:33
And so are you, because it’s a new service for you, are you analyzing other group coaching programs and seeing what you like, don’t like, what you want to change about them to make it work for you? That’s kind of what I did for my group coaching program.

Judy Galek 25:48
Yeah, I’ve gone through that process. And the way I’m going to do it is, I’ll have a weekly zoom call with the group. So whoever is available, you can jump on there. It will be live but not recorded for, you know, privacy purposes. And in the group, in the actual group, the community, I will be active in there, perhaps two or three times a week, on video, but I’ll be interacting with the questions that people publish and ask and all that stuff.

Matt Ward 26:26
Super cool. So what about the work to get there? Right? I mean, I think small business owners, get these ideas, which are often white shiny objects, right? And we chase them. And we start to realize that there’s a whole bunch of work involved. So I know what’s involved in launching a group coaching program. And I imagine you’re starting to realize what could be involved in that. Do you worry, like, what’s your mindset around launching a new service offering? Is it a challenge for you? Or do you worry about whether or not you can pull it off?

Judy Galek 27:12
No, I can certainly pull it off. For me, what’s been the challenges, because it’s a course, I’m building a course. And people will buy the course and be placed in that group afterwards for continuous support. So it’s, it’s mainly creating the course for me, figuring out what to put into it, because I have so much I can share. It’s gonna be about boundaries. Boundaries is something a lot of people struggle with in the recovery field, not knowing what it is, or you know, how to enforce it. So that’s it, that’s a lot. So just refining what I’m going to have in the course, create the course, and then launch it. And my mindset is, it’s something people want, people want it, people are desperate for this type of work

Matt Ward 28:04
And for those people who are thinking about adding a course, to your service offerings, I’ll just share with you how I did mine. I did a live three hour workshop in Houston, Texas in 2019. And I recorded it on audio and recorded it on video, for myself. It was only for myself. And then I rewashed everything and broke down the modules that I had written out. And then those modules became the modules for the course. And then I just recorded all the videos for the course, based on the content that I did. So don’t forget, you can repurpose your content and your workshops and things into these online classes. And yeah, that helps accelerate the ability to get it out the door.

Judy Galek 28:53
Oh, yes, yes. With the free group coaching, well, the free Facebook group I have, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to do it live in that group, and recorded and then repurpose it in that way.

Matt Ward 29:07
Yeah, that’s genius. That’s a great tactic. Now, speaking of services, and software and things like that. I always like to ask the guests, what one piece of software do you think is a game changer for small business that could help other small business owners?

Judy Galek 29:24
Hmm, you know, I tried so many things and try doing all of that stuff myself. And I found it much easier for me when I outsource to Thryv.

Matt Ward 29:37
Oh,

Judy Galek 29:38
Yeah. So they do my small, like short videos. I can book my services through them. And they do my website, you know, and email campaign, they have that available too. So that was definitely a game changer for me, having everything just be in one place. And I don’t have to worry about it. And social media content too.

Matt Ward 30:05
There you go. Yeah. So Thryv. T-H-R-Y-V. We’ll add that in the show notes. Um, you said earlier that you like to read….best business book you’ve read?

Judy Galek 30:24
Well, of course, your book, Matt. No, you didn’t pay me to say that. And I have to, I have to say it’s one of the best books because it’s authentic. And it’s full of tips. And it’s real, like things people would not think about, you know, like, a lot of the business books I’ve read, it’s more so like, you know, going after the kill, and doing all the stuff to get the sale or to close the deal. But your book was more so like, authentic and tips on how to connect with other people. Which is mean, like, what my business is, is all about connection, because, you know, a lot of people who are struggling with addiction, they’re not advertising it, you know? So that helped me a lot.

Matt Ward 31:10
Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, I appreciate that. Wait, all right. Give me another book now. Not my book, but give me another book.

Judy Galek 31:17
Okay. The Go-Giver.

Matt Ward 31:20
Oh, Bob Burg. Yeah,

Judy Galek 31:22
Yeah. I love that book. It’s very small, short and sweet. It ties into what you write in your book about being of service to other people and not really worried so much about where the business is gonna come from and trusting that it will come. You know, because once people like you, they will refer to you.

Matt Ward 31:45
Yeah, I just had a conversation with Bob the other day, and he’s such a great guy. He’s, he’s open, he’s honest. And I’m really excited. I’m told him about my new book that’s coming out and he’s excited to help me launch that so that’s gonna be fun. So yeah, he’s such a great guy, such a great guy. And I think his books have changed the world in a lot of ways you know, the people that get their hands on love them, just and they say the same, very similar things to what you said, and I think that’s great. So we’ll make sure we add a link in the show notes to The Go-Giver on Amazon. You can check that out. Judy, thanks for joining us on this episode, Episode 19 of the Mass Business Podcast. If the listeners on their favorite podcast platform or viewers on YouTube want to get in touch with Judy Galek, how can they do so, how can they reach out whether it’s just for networking or for a chat about family recoveries work?

Judy Galek 32:41
My email is the best contact information for me, that’s [email protected], my email address and social media, you know, if you, hopefully, if someone Google’s My name or hop on Facebook, they’ll find me.

Matt Ward 33:03
There you go. And if you don’t know how to get ahold of her, we’re gonna put all those links in the show notes, her website, her email, social media links, things like that. We’ll have them all in the show notes so you can make sure you can connect with her. Judy, thank you so much for sharing your insight about business growth, what you do, and the challenges that you face. That information is really going to help other people and the things you’ve learned in the two years you’ve been in business. I can’t wait to talk to you in another five years to see what has changed from now. Can you believe it? I hope this podcast is still going strong, man. We’ll see if it works. Maybe it’ll be, you’re on episode 19. Maybe it’ll be Episode 1019 or something. Right.

Judy Galek 33:45
Thank you so much, Matt.

Matt Ward 33:46
Absolutely, absolutely and for those of you listening, make sure that you subscribe on that favorite podcast app. Don’t forget to like and share and smash that subscribe button on YouTube. And like I always say, until next time, don’t forget to live happy, smile a lot, and high-five everyone around you. Take care everybody

Outro- Thank you for listening to the Mass Business Podcast where we focus on growing a small business and understanding networking and referrals. Don’t forget to like on your favorite platform and share out this podcast. This show has been produced by Heather Grant, music by Cailte Kelley. All rights reserved. I’m your host, professional speaker, author, and word of mouth referral consultant, Matt Ward. Don’t forget to live happy, smile a lot, and high five everyone around you.

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